Autofire: Mo' Dakka, No Problems

Fire Selector to 'Auto'

So, in running a fairly diverse party in terms of damage-dealing potential, I observed something as hard truth that I've read in a lot of places.

Autofire is really OP. Like, beats everything else, bar none. You have to cheat with Force Power combos that require hundreds of XP to purchase to even begin to fight back. A beginner character with a heavy blaster rifle and a good enough stat/skill (YYGG will do) can pummel even an advanced enemy into paste quickly.

Autofire, RAW, costs 2 Advantages to deal base + success damage again, essentially granting you an immediately successful extra attack for nearly identical damage; damage from talents, being neither base damage or uncancelled successes, doesn't often apply on more than the original hit. It can also inflict Critical Hits, 1 per extra shot, but most Autofire weapons have 3-4 crit, so this doesn't come up much. I think there was an Autopistol that had a 2 crit, and could probably work shenanigans with this if desired.

The trade-off for this is an increase of difficulty by 1; this can be ignored via the 'Rain of Death' talent in Hired Gun/Heavy, at the cost of a maneuver. So, if you have that, and are okay with not moving (just acquire cover first) you can plug away at no increase. You can further gear down the difficulty of shots at a given range through mods, to make some really disgusting dice pools. I have a HG/Heavy base character in my party right now who rolls, against Long range, YYYYYGBB vs PP + defense value. He usually gets 3 - 4 hits against a Minion wave, which is fine, because they're intended to go down in a single hit.

The problem is, he gets 3 - 4 hits against Nemesis level enemies as well, and does equally well in test-rolls against Force-using enemies, dropping them below WT before they can close range and become effective with Force powers that can put a stop to it. (Influence can TRY at extreme range, but his Discipline is high enough that the contested roll is against RRPP and is reasonably unlikely to work.)

Something Something Lightsabers Something

"But, Seraph!" I hear you cry. "Force users can stop blaster shots cold! One soldier can't shoot a Jedi!" Well, let's talk about that.

'Reflect' only stops SOME damage - 2 + 1 per rank, with 3-4 ranks being practical for a career Jedi. And against a HBR, that's a pittance. Paper armor at best, even on top of soak. If they have the capstone from HG/Heavy and can add Breach to their attack? You are screwed. Nothing can help you. You are shaving 6 points off a 14 point minimum attack...that is hitting multiple times...and you are paying 3 strain (1 with Shien's Reflect capstone) for that, meaning that you are spending a resource to lose less of another resource. It's a bad arms race that bullets win, every time.

You could bounce his shots back, potentially, but that's a headache to set up and doesn't stop you from getting hurt at all. I'll bawww about that in another post, at another time.

Soak for a non-Brawn Jedi can be in low supply - this is what Reflect and Parry are supposed to address, so that the Jedi has melee/ranged soak roughly equal to the trooper. But the trooper doesn't have to PAY for their soak, they just HAVE it. Whereas Jedi are constantly paying strain for it, and have to be able to react to do it. Unable to react, for some reason? Well...start building something else.

Just Spray, Leave the Prayer to Them

In short, if you want to deal lots of damage in FFG SW, build a trooper who uses a big rifle (Heavy Blaster Rifle is minimum entry-level) and triggers Autofire all day. You can gear for automatic advantages; you can gear to add Boost dice to the roll and generate more advantages, you can gear to reduce difficulty and generate less threats. The difficulty penalty is low, and can basically be bought off with a talent, which Two-Weapon Fighting cannot claim. Jedi cannot properly respond to the output without straining themselves into a gasping heap - which you will then disintegrate with your fifth hit of autofire.

Really, the only thing that stands up to this is...other troopers. Heavy armor, talent trees that prioritize soak, and the ability to engage at similar range are required for defeating the Autofire heavy. Everything else just misses the mark.

Dual Wielding: Jar'Kai for the Jedi Guy

So in researching outside material for this game, I've noticed that there seems to be some gaps in the rules for fighting with two weapons, and no real agreement that I've been able to find as to how to fill them. Mostly, it has to do with how you interpret the attack to be happening; the disagreement lies in whether the off-hand weapon is an active part of the roll-to-hit.

So today, let's take a look at Dual Wielding. Rules as written, the gaps, and how you can interpret what's there to fill in what isn't.

How to Two-Weapon Fighting in a galaxy far, far away

So, doing the thing itself isn't that hard; other games make it a lot more painful, requiring levels worth of investment to even be baseline good at it. Usually, this means all your buddies are Power Attacking or Magicking everything to death before you can really do much more than get both your swords out. In FFG Star Wars, it's much more practical and requires no extra investment on your character sheet.

First, the player determines a primary weapon. This is important, and the rulebook's wording is kind of important to consider: "When making the combined check, he will be attacking with this weapon." The other weapon is considered the secondary. Player then determines skills and characteristics used by the weapon skills of both weapons.

Then (and here's a part that gets me thinking the secondary weapon is more involved) you use the worst of both skill and characteristic for both. Meaning if you're using Brawl/Brawn and Ranged (Light)/Agility, and you're not built to do both very well, you could be looking at an ugly roll here. This rule gets thrown out if both weapons use the same skill - you just roll on the standard check value.

Now, you determine the standard difficulty for what you are trying to do. If the weapons you are trying to use are the same type, you increase difficulty by 1; if they are different, you increase difficulty by 2. Again, evidence that the off-hand weapon is doing something here that matters, and not just sitting idle until you have two advantages to use. If it weren't, why would the check be harder?

You then make your roll; success is determined as normal, with the off-hand weapon being a hit at the cost of 2 advantages. From there, weapon qualities can be activated as normal. Now, it's interesting, the wording on that bit in the book; it would seem that if both weapons don't hit, you can't activate their other qualities. Check that shit out for yourself; everything I just related can be found in the core rulebooks, in the "Additional Combat Modifiers" section of the "Conflict and Combat" chapter.

Weapon Attachments, Mods, and Special Qualities

Really, it's not an unfair system at all; it compares to Autofire favorably, though Autofire can, of course, pump out WAY more rounds on a good roll. Dual Wielding is limited to two hits (at least under RAW) and so suffers a little on damage.

But, this can be mitigated a bit, depending on how you interpret the next bit. See, the rules are...hazy, let's say, on how to handle some weapon attachments and qualities. Specifically, things that alter the attack roll, and other passive abilities.

This is where the whole thing I did above is handy - I pointed out at the three ventures where the rules differ from a standard attack, what these changes imply about the nature of the attack. Yes, you dictate a primary weapon; but from there, the attack roll is much harder and can wind up with very strange skill/characteristic combinations determining your dice pool.

I choose to interpret this as your off-hand weapon being active in the attack, even if it not the first one to hit. This is fine - when you swing two things at someone, one of them will almost always hit before the other. Simultaneous strikes are not as strong a tactic. 

So, what does this mean for weapon attachments and qualities? Well, really, it means that they work, most of them, but some of them work in ways that are harder to parse. Really, you have to follow a simple rule of thumb - if it affects damage, it only applies to that weapon. If it affects the roll itself, it likely just works with little consideration.

Weapon Qualities

• Any (Active) quality can be activated, after the off-hand hit, at their standard cost. Any that depend on the damage of the attack use the damage dealt by the weapon that owns the quality.
• Autofire gets singled out, because it must be dictated before shooting. It works as normal, but can only be paid for after the normal cost of Dual Wielding. Also, don't forget that +2  difficulty - it stacks. Dual Wielding Autofire pistols is...not really advisable.
• Accurate and Inaccurate apply. If the off-hand weapon is making the roll more difficult, absolutely the quality of the weapon's make should matter.
• Defensive and Deflection apply fully to off-hand implements; otherwise, the riot shield would be pointless. Not coincidentally, the mere existence of the shield informed much of this ruling.
• Superior applies the advantages to the initial roll. The +DAM from Superior is applied individually to the damage output of the weapon that owns it.
• Breach and Pierce only apply to the damage of the weapon that owns them.
• Vicious applies globally to crit rolls, regardless of handedness; one crit roll is all you get, anyway, and the rules for Dual Wielding don't expressly change that.

In Closing

I think this about covers this topic. It's really important to get straight, because once you hit mid-level, if you aren't throwing people things with your mind or swinging a big rifle, dual wielding is kind of a big deal in terms of your damage output. If Han were an EotE character, he would probably dual wield. Then he would shoot first and second.

I'd be happy with that.


EDIT, NOVEMBER 7

So, in reviewing dev answers to corner case questions, I found that their official take on dual wielding is a little different - specifically, they claim that (most of) the qualities of the off-hand weapon do not apply. I take issue with this for a couple of reasons.

-It's clear that the off-hand weapon matters for more than just "pay two advantages, get extra damage" being as your attack is more difficult, and may in fact be using that off-hand weapon's skill or related stat to determine the roll. If the off-hand weapon makes the attack harder, why does the quality of that weapon not take effect? It really seems stupid to me.
-The way the ruling works, one could main a Nova Viper blaster pistol (Ranged Light, Accurate 2) and off-hand a J7-B Beam Drill (Melee, Inaccurate 2) and simply not give a shit that his off-hand weapon is basically a half-step up from an improvised weapon. I fucking hate this, even if my players will likely never, ever do it. There shouldn't be circumstances in which this fairly crippling penalty just doesn't matter.

Running this game

I've noticed a lot of things over the last six months or so of gameplay. Little foibles in the system, things it doesn't do very well (or at all - attacking from stealth, anyone?), and things it handles elegantly.

There are also familiar things to a longtime tabletop gamer - the way Hull Threshold, Armor, and the damage from Vehicle-scale weapons corresponds to Wound Threshold, Soak, and the damage from personal weapons is very much like Palladium's SDC and MDC, notably from the Rifts series.

There are a couple of overarching points I wanted to muse on, though, beyond little things that I can get into later in more detail.

Running this game is fun

Well, duh. If it wasn't, who would do it? It's very fun to see a group of enthused players really get into their roles in the universe you paint for them; setting be damned on that one, too. This is a pretty universal truth.

Star Wars holds a few unique things, though. Picking up your first serious magic weapon in D&D is good, but not as glee-inducing as a player finally constructing that iconic, glowing menace that is the lightsaber. Few moments in gaming beat that sensation of finding the right parts, acquiring a crystal to fit, and turning on your very own rainbow-hued plasma flashlight. It's just as satisfying from the other side - seeing the player's work pay off in a very real way, and seeing their pleasure at the outcome, can be addicting.

Once you get good at wielding the system, understanding the ins-and-outs of how characters work, creating NPCs virtually off the top of your head can be easy and natural. It's not hard to go from "drug dealer on a corner" to "this guy has a 3 cunning, but only a 1 willpower, and has 2 ranks in Negotiate, Coerce, and Perception". I've done it in seconds. Studying the Adversaries section of the core books is a great way to learn how effective NPCs work - seriously, Stormtroopers are actually frightening in this game. And if they have a sergeant or two with them, directing their fire? Dead PCs can result.

Likewise, it's nice to watch your players get used to the system as well - going from "Uh, what do I roll again?" to "Difficulty 3 with 1 upgrade? Ok...result is 3 successes and 1 threat!" It does become native, and once you get used to them the unique dice are reasonably fun to use, if a bit spendy. They make sense, and work on a wavelength that numbers just don't really relate. Numbers create binary situations - you passed or you failed.

As a GM, the system handles what it needs to, and lets you make up the in-between. Sometimes this is easier than others. Sometimes your players will disagree. Sometimes you will want to run to the existing community for help, despite the fact that they don't know either. Which leads to the next point:

You have to house rule a lot

The system has holes. There, I said it. There are a million little corner cases to be picked out of it. (I'll do some posts on a few of these corner cases and my analysis of them later; I just wanted to touch the subject, for now.)

How do you handle attacking from stealth? How do you deal with the bonuses from an off-hand weapon during a paired attack? What kind of semi-permanent (or even permanent) bonuses can a technical skill really give when a Triumph is rolled? The list goes on for a while, I'm sure. I haven't encountered them all yet.

Really, the answer is as I said above - you just have to wing it, mate. Come up with it off the top as best you can, in a way that satisfies as many involved as you can. Searching the Fantasy Flight Games forums for an answer can help sometimes, but usually not because of a ruling by the game devs - more often, you find a post you agree with and just fit that in.

This can be fun, but it can also be very frustrating trying to interpret rules from source material that seems to indicate more than one thing. This is the big issue with paired attacks - ambiguity. Not sure if actually using off-hand weapon for initial attack roll or not.

Some of these holes have been patched in the expanded material, the sourcebooks that have been released to support classes and certain sectors of space. Others have really not been. Only time will tell if FFG will patch these missing rules in, or just leave it up to our discretion.

There's a lot of numbers and sheets

For a game that doesn't use number-faced dice, this game has a real abundance of number data as far as tracking a character goes. WT, ST, Soak, Ranks, XP...a lot. And then there's the sheets. Character sheet, talent tree sheets, Force power sheets, Vehicle sheets, Gear sheets (if you download homemade things); I was thinking of creating a Sheet sheet so you could easily track your sheets on a helpful sheet. But I digress.


The game is pretty printer intensive. There are cleaner version of the talent trees and Force power trees available online if you know where to look; maybe at some point I'll do a list of all the homemade stuff I've used, and those will definitely be on it.

This game is pretty adversarial (or: Destiny Points are stupid) 

Don't get me wrong, though. I actually quite like Destiny points. Most of the last games I've played in have used an "Action/Drama Point" system that worked very well, and added to the game in positive ways.

The bit I hate about Destiny is the back-and-forth nature of the system. The fact that in order for the party to have Destiny Points...I have to be a tool. I have to do things to screw the player party, purposefully. I have to use those points in a manner that fits, which can cost the players quite a bit if it really goes south.

I also have a love/hate relationship with Despair and Threat icons. As a writer, I understand the narrative purpose for them (though some would argue that just being a good storyteller does their job) and use them as I feel I should. But on the other side, they're designed to be 'bad luck' and that's...what a miss is, last I checked. Unlucky roll = no hit, not "hit with negative side effects" or "hit but something crazy happens".

Spending Destiny (as a GM) to upgrade a difficulty dice might not seem that bad, until that red comes up with a Despair, and then you are a double asshole, because that Despair, too, has to do something. Cause an ammo drain, or an effect of some kind that hurts the player party. Action economy is the easiest way; this is the role that "out of ammo" serves if the player has a way to answer that, which is cheap. Damage is not usually that great a response, but having an enemy make an attack or a maneuver can be okay. It's very conditional, and really depends on your personal level of jerk as the GM as to how ugly it gets.

Threat, Despair, and Destiny add up to this rule element that can really ruin a party's adventure in a galaxy far, far away. These icons can be badly misused by a GM who isn't in a team-play mood. Threats can quickly be used to strain a party into submission. Despairs can be used to remove their ways to fight. Destiny points can be used to make players rolls more challenging, more complicated, or just outright worse.(Player rolls can be downgraded with Destiny - because that isn't adversarial at all, no sir!)

Of course, worse things can happen. One side or the other can just...not spend Destiny. The game stagnates a little when that happens, and it is almost always an adversarial choice to do this; "We don't want the GM to have Destiny to screw us with, so we won't spend any." Correct tactical assessment; horrible for gameplay. One, it limits the use of Destiny-consuming talents and specializations. Two, it disallows the players (or GM) from using the pool of points to change the nature of the game, which is what they are meant for.

I've had to think to find ways to spend Destiny and not be a complete jerk with the actions. I've upgraded some difficulties, sure, but I've also used Destiny to have an NPC villain get away clean, I've spent it to have NPCs make PC-level leaps of logic to figure things out, or to implement a new rule on the battlefield (destruction timer, hazard objects, etc). I try to make sure I at least spend as many as I started the game with - now, to get my players to use theirs more...

A blog? About a tabletop game?

What's this all about?

Well, I tend to organize my thoughts better in writing, and there seems to be an AWFUL lot of organizing I need to do regarding this system and the way it works. Plus, perhaps others will find and benefit from my analysis of things, and my ideas on how to run a game in this setting, this system, that suits both GM and players.

Mechanics Exploration

"This one goes there, and that one goes there. Right?!" - Han Solo, Ep. IV

  
There are plenty of mechanics in this system that are left (purposefully?) vague and undefined, so as to encourage the GM and players to make up their own rules for what they want. Don't want a super crunchy experience? (Really, you should play something else, but) You can do that. Want a lot of crunch? Well, you can do that too...but it requires some brain sweat on the part of the GM, at the very least, to figure out HOW.

So, I'll do some posts regarding mechanics that I've found lacking, absent, or just plain silly, and how I would, will, or already have adjusted them to fit my group of players, along with a rationale of those changes.

I'll also play with theory builds, in my explorations, and use those to illustrate a few points. Most notable among them will be the Force Assassin crit build, the Autofire Trooper DPS build, and the (undeniably underpowered) Saber Master reflect build.

New Content

I'll also eventually remove head from posterior long enough to work out the additions I want to make to the game - most notably a Universal Teräs Käsi tree intended to make a Brawl-oriented character as frightening as an Autofire Trooper or a Force Assassin archetype.

I would also like to add "Signature" ability extentions to certain force powers - having a Shatterpoint capstone to Sense, for example, that adds to one's crit effectiveness. This would allow a Jedi to have good crit rolls without taking a class that doesn't jibe with their theming. (I probably won't go too crazy with this, though, because balance and stuff.)

So, yeah. That's what you've found today. Stay tuned for updates as often as I can get 'em out and done.

"Go strap yourselves in. I'm going to make the jump to light speed." - Han Solo, Ep. IV